"We need to view Oath Keepers as an educational organization looking to reach teach and inspire those who have taken an Oath to follow, support and defend the constitution. That is our charter. We need to be careful about political activism as this organization is nonpartisan.
As a volunteer organization we can try to help those like Lt Colonel Larkin perhaps with a fundraising effort but right now you really have to consider our small size and resources. We are less than 20,000 strong while other constitutional organizations like the Tea Party and NRA are millions strong." - Dennis LaGruaMy response:
So Dennis, you're saying that as an outreach program (for lack of a better term), we should not draw attention to the people doing what we ask? Doesn't that seem a little "do as I say, not as I do"-ish?
Numbers are not as important. I might remind you, only 3% of the colonists actually fought against the Crown's troops, and we still won.
And as a volunteer organization, we should be doing all in our power to help these people. Stewart and the crew are going across the country to promote Oath Keepers. They're going onto media outlets to protest groups like the SPLC defaming them. But the people who should be getting the attention from the group are ignored. Seems a little backward to me.
Numbers are not as important. I might remind you, only 3% of the colonists actually fought against the Crown's troops, and we still won.
And as a volunteer organization, we should be doing all in our power to help these people. Stewart and the crew are going across the country to promote Oath Keepers. They're going onto media outlets to protest groups like the SPLC defaming them. But the people who should be getting the attention from the group are ignored. Seems a little backward to me.
"Oath Keepers are in it. The unspoken ones are out there being active as individuals. They can't be politically active and represent themselves as OK. Most oath keepers are not members. But that's where the political activists come from. I attend three GOP county meetings each month. My county chair is a SEAL. The county chair west of me is a Gunny. I found out Saturday that the other chair is Army, Korean combat veteran with Purple Heart. The oath keepers are active and the Oath Keepers need to join with them.
Virtual support through a computer keyboard will not be enough. Shoulder to shoulder is what it's going to take." -I'm sorry, what? Oath Keepers can't declare themselves as that? Why? Out of fear they won't get the votes? People, if you stand by the Constitution and listen to your constituents, you won't see a problem getting those votes. People love it when someone in the government defends them.
"Guess what? You don't get to change the mission. It is what it is for good reason. The fact that you don't understand it changes nothing about its validity. This is not a democracy. However, you do get to vote...with your feet...in or out. You don't like it, go start something better . If your vision and approach is superior, you will siphon off the majority. Quit whining about it and go do something." -Cindy Sullivan 2.4
My response:
Who's changing this mission, Cindy? All I see if a group of people being put on the defensive and being reactive, droning on about smear tactics used by the SPLC for months and months. A grudge is kept and isn't allowed to die.
The mission changed from RTI to "huddle up, we need to keep ourselves safe!" the moment the founders of this organization allowed these groups to gain a foothold in their operations.
The SPLC is winning with every speck of attention given to them.
"Patrick,
We are discussing the Terry Lakin issue. He says he is refusing all orders based on his questions regarding the Presidents citizenship status which, if he can prove his case, makes his argument valid.
The Orders that Oathkeepers encourages MIL/LEO to disobey are unambiguous in there unconsitutionality, and do not need to be 'proven', such as Orders to disarm the American People, or put them into detention camps, or conducting warrantless searches. There is a lot on ambiguity in the route that LTC Lakin has chosen. We are discussing it.
That being said, you joined less than 24 hours ago, and here you say:
" You should have known this would happen, and like they wanted, you toned down the message and went on the defensive. That, my friends, is not what I signed up for.
."
Well, if you weren't too scared to join us months ago, maybe you could have shared your impeccable insight with us and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Too bad."
My response:
Clearly, Ray, you didn't read everything I said. Otherwise, you would have seen "I fell out of touch with the group around last January". So, no, I did not join "less than 24 hours ago", sorry to burst your bubble.
Second, the Constitutional orders also reflect upon the Constitutionality of those elected. If the President has failed to conform to the Constitution in his eligibility, then every order given is nulled. This includes deployments to combat zones. In this case, a man is alleged to have illegally obtained the office of President of the United States through false pretenses, and as such has thumbed his nose at the Constitution (assuming it is true).
I don't think you understand the implications of this. LtCol Lakin is not the first person to have decided to disobey orders until Mr. Obama proves that he meets the criteria as established BY THE CONSTITUTION, but he's the highest-ranking active duty officer to have one so. Two other officers have done the same, and in one case the Army rescinded the orders rather than court-martial to officer in question. You know what this means?
If Obama refuses to show the proof that he is a natural-born citizen, this is a "get out of war free" card. Any soldier, sailor, airman, and Marine can say, "You know what? I'm declaring these orders illegal until the President proves his eligibility to serve in that capacity", and precedence says they will be allowed to serve back home and ignore deployment.
As I said, my issue is that the people actually doing what this group espouses as its core values (that the Constitution, the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND should be followed by the federal government, and that the military should hold the powers-that-be accountable under it) are being ignored, while the Oath Keepers lick the superficial wounds inflicted by a group pretty much ignored except by those without a brain.
As Chesty Puller is quoted as saying, "We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem of getting to these people and killing them." You're surrounded by the enemy and allowing those that are fighting alongside you be destroyed. All to preserve what little honor this organization maintains. And just like the Army at Chosin Reservoir during the Vietnam conflict, those men are being left behind. Don't expect the Marines to save your fallen Army comrades this time.
As an addition, Ray, Obama has put millions into paying for lawyers in order to quash these requests to see the paperwork. No judge is allowing any case to go forward, and in one case in 2009 (I believe), a judge even ruled that a case was filed frivolously, and in his ruling claimed that the issue had been "twitted and blogged" and vetted. You can't prove a case if people won't allow it to go forward.
Second, the Constitutional orders also reflect upon the Constitutionality of those elected. If the President has failed to conform to the Constitution in his eligibility, then every order given is nulled. This includes deployments to combat zones. In this case, a man is alleged to have illegally obtained the office of President of the United States through false pretenses, and as such has thumbed his nose at the Constitution (assuming it is true).
I don't think you understand the implications of this. LtCol Lakin is not the first person to have decided to disobey orders until Mr. Obama proves that he meets the criteria as established BY THE CONSTITUTION, but he's the highest-ranking active duty officer to have one so. Two other officers have done the same, and in one case the Army rescinded the orders rather than court-martial to officer in question. You know what this means?
If Obama refuses to show the proof that he is a natural-born citizen, this is a "get out of war free" card. Any soldier, sailor, airman, and Marine can say, "You know what? I'm declaring these orders illegal until the President proves his eligibility to serve in that capacity", and precedence says they will be allowed to serve back home and ignore deployment.
As I said, my issue is that the people actually doing what this group espouses as its core values (that the Constitution, the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND should be followed by the federal government, and that the military should hold the powers-that-be accountable under it) are being ignored, while the Oath Keepers lick the superficial wounds inflicted by a group pretty much ignored except by those without a brain.
As Chesty Puller is quoted as saying, "We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem of getting to these people and killing them." You're surrounded by the enemy and allowing those that are fighting alongside you be destroyed. All to preserve what little honor this organization maintains. And just like the Army at Chosin Reservoir during the Vietnam conflict, those men are being left behind. Don't expect the Marines to save your fallen Army comrades this time.
As an addition, Ray, Obama has put millions into paying for lawyers in order to quash these requests to see the paperwork. No judge is allowing any case to go forward, and in one case in 2009 (I believe), a judge even ruled that a case was filed frivolously, and in his ruling claimed that the issue had been "twitted and blogged" and vetted. You can't prove a case if people won't allow it to go forward.
Now to see if anyone such as Stewart will respond.
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